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EnricoCaruso (2002-01-01 20:42:08)
维也纳新年音乐会不愧是当今世界上水平最高的音乐会。我完整的听过99、2000、2001、2002四年的音乐会，之后都只有这一种想法。
尤其是今年的，小泽令我耳目一新，原来施特劳斯的作品还能够有这么奇妙的演绎方法！ 马泽尔给给人的是欧洲人特有的幽默与风趣，哈农库特令你明白什么叫维也纳的味道，小泽则把东西方两个世界完美的融合了起来！每年都能让人有惊喜的新年音乐会！（2000年我不大喜欢，穆帝年轻时的感觉我看不到）
我也送小泽一句：新年好！中国人民喜欢您！
EnricoCaruso (2002-01-01 20:48:56)
不过最遗憾的是，宿舍的电视被别人霸占，只能坐在阳台上听收音机，边听边自我表现陶醉的指挥，看不到小泽的身影，遗憾，遗憾。但就是这样，他的魅力还是源源不断从电波中奔洒出来！
Peter Fang (2002-01-01 20:49:16)
今年要到维也纳国家歌剧院上任的小泽显然和乐团的关系极端融洽，团员在他指挥下演奏的投入溢于言表。今晚的演出我的感觉是流畅自然，充满生命力和人情味，几首经常演奏的作品（象《蝙蝠》序曲、《艺术家的生涯》、《无穷动》等）虽然有许多大师的精彩演出在前，听起来还是情趣盎然，味道十足。小泽这样一位东方人能在维也纳有如此挥洒自如的表现，真是会让一些在欧洲名气更大但指挥新年音乐会时差强人意的大师惭愧了。
deRud (2002-01-01 20:51:35)
正像幕间说的一样，新世纪古典音乐世界的有力竞争者将来自中国。
可是想不到记者和小泽竟然都不知道gramophone这个英文单词，让人大跌眼镜。而记者采访时竟然还要看问题。
Peter Fang (2002-01-01 21:00:33)
这位出身著名播音员家庭的CCTV记者起码按照稿子说问题英文还算流利，没闹更大的笑话就不错了，不能要求太高。记者听到小泽介绍VPO的团员也是维也纳国家歌剧院的乐队队员时好象很惊奇的样子，还专门问"This
orchestra?"，让小泽确认一次；另外小泽提到他的斋藤纪念(Saito Kinen)音乐节活动，翻译根本就没有翻出来。小泽的英文的确是象美国人指责的那样，在那边工作多年还是一口的broken
English。不过短短的采访中，他那谦逊平和的高尚人格魅力丝毫不受语言的限制，照样能够深深打动我们。
EnricoCaruso (2002-01-01 21:07:37)
下半场开场的蝙蝠序曲我是真服了小泽了！美中不足的是无穷动的结尾为什么观众那么早拍掌。
Handel (2002-01-01 21:12:15)
所以我怀疑配画面的很有可能是录音，这可不是李立群演卡拉哈哈呀，那么大一堆人一个出错拍子就很有可能合不上了 有没有人注意到无穷动开头小泽动了几下之后音乐才响起来？
EnricoCaruso (2002-01-01 21:14:03)
天哪！录音？我猜只是传输过程（上天、下地）中技术故障使得声画不同步罢了
deRud (2002-01-01 21:14:29)
是不是小泽在示意节奏？？
至于观众，大概是被感动的不行了吧？
今年的CD和DVD应该在中国脱销，就冲着那句话吧：）
classicfan (2002-01-01 21:15:54)
绝对不是录音，在很多曲子开始指挥前，小泽都把节奏预示一下，然后才起拍，那就是你说的“开头动了几下”，这也许是他的习惯。
Peter Fang (2002-01-01 21:16:26)
我也注意到了《无穷动》开头的“问题”，比较可疑。等着出DVD吧，里面只会有实际演出的画面和声音，配舞蹈的曲目可能会做到special
feature里面。
Felix (2002-01-01 21:22:33)
Classicfan兄说的两场也是小弟最喜欢的两次新年音乐会。总想在新年音乐会里听一听琉特琴的维也纳森林，总是等不到。小泽曲子前先动几下除了预示速度外，也是酝酿情绪。我倒觉得蝙蝠序曲的演出好像有点问题。
这是几年来看得最下意的一次！！
classicfan (2002-01-01 21:23:28)
虽然我们都认为今年的新年音乐会很精彩，可是EnricoCaruso说“维也纳新年音乐会不愧是当今世界上水平最高的音乐会”，在下却无法同意，这是以娱乐性为主的音乐会，与其他常规音乐会缺乏可比性，就象最好的啤酒一样，你能说它比顶级白兰地好？
deRud (2002-01-01 21:32:04)
卡卢索只是太激动了，何况又没有电视机。
就像我第一次听《蝙蝠》把它说成最伟大的歌剧一样。嘿嘿～～
Handel (2002-01-01 21:35:06)
看来腐朽透顶的东西喜欢的人反而多
我也觉得蝙蝠好听又好看，Strauss写这么一个就顶上百首圆舞曲了
EnricoCaruso (2002-01-01 21:43:38)
DERUD说的大概没错…… 不过说要听施特老斯的“俗”，也非听新年音乐会不可。
蝙蝠序曲的演出有什么问题？我是没听过小泽这么玩法的。
大俗大雅就别争了……更别提什么“腐朽透顶”好不好？
classicfan (2002-01-01 21:46:38)
EnricoCaruso别急，人家说的是“反话”，你难道听不出来？
EnricoCaruso (2002-01-01 21:55:34)
晚辈才疏学浅，没注意体会…… FELIX兄，蝙蝠序曲的演出到底哪里有问题啊？
Handel (2002-01-01 21:58:27)
我确实喜欢蝙蝠啊，不是反话
Felix (2002-01-01 22:00:28)
蝙蝠的处理挺来劲，我是觉得有个地方出了点小问题，呵呵！
EnricoCaruso (2002-01-01 22:04:03)
哦，是这个意思。我是很喜欢小泽这次的蝙蝠的！
同一个乐团，不同的指挥就会有那么多种多样的味道，新年音乐会就是好！要听指挥（那些不演“俗”曲目的除外）不能错过新年音乐。
HANDEL，他是指第一句话
classicfan (2002-01-01 22:05:11)
卡拉扬、克莱伯、小泽三人的“蝙蝠”是各有特色，不分上下。卡拉扬气派庄严，王者风范；克莱伯灵敏机动，收放自如，而小泽明快跃动，流畅幽默。
deRud (2002-01-01 22:08:21)
蝙蝠的问题是不是开头几小节全奏后铜管的问题？
EnricoCaruso (2002-01-01 22:12:45)
还是前辈们的耳力厉害！！
Handel (2002-01-01 22:15:18)
收到，我第一次看完小克的蝙蝠全剧之后，第一感觉就是这种能把腐朽剧目演绎得如此机智，确实是指挥功力的体现，所以又想起腐朽这个词，然后加上透顶二字，不是反话，却不含贬义，因为我就喜欢嘛
Felix (2002-01-01 22:16:03)
具体什么地方印象不深，那一刻的印象留到现在就是那时我正在剥一只大对虾。好像是在比较靠前的地方。
GL (2002-01-01 22:56:27)
小泽的演出绝对精彩，而且曲目选择也很好。虽然不是象去年哈农库特那种我喜欢的点型的奥地利味道，但是让人非常快活。只是现场转播的声音似乎高音太多了，非常亮。还有导演也很有意思。镜头使劲的给那个竖琴MM，大概是好不容易有了个女队员？
donjuan 来自: USA (2002-01-02 15:31:16)
OK, let me cool you guys down a little bit. This morning
I heard through FM radio of this new year's concerto from
Vienna. Since I saw you guys' posts first, many of which
acclaiming that Seiji's interpretation was so great, so
I paid an extreme attention on it. Sadly though, the music
through my HK stereo sounded so boomy, making VPO just like
a secondary marching band. Very disappointed indeed. This
evening, I saw it through PBS TV of the recorded live broadcasting,
it sounded a little better, with much needed high frequency
information, which provided many detail layers lost in the
radio. However, the whole experience was still kind of less
impressing. I have to admit that the second half better
played than the first part, while the Water Color Waltz
in the first is quite an interesting piece. What I missing
though is the subtleness, the elasticity, the balletic rhythms,
which are the heart and soul of those music by the Strauss
families. I should say that Seiji no lack of charisma that's
for sure, while at least to many Asian audiences, and this
concerto is one of more energetic ones within recent years
( I guess I can say that since I also have been following
this event for quite some time, since mid-late 80's), but
after an immediate comparison afterwards, with my other
collections, e.g. Broskovsky's Vienna in Music (taped in
73), Kleiber in 89, and Karajan in 87 together with some
others. This one still facing a lot competitions in many
regards, esp., against the first two I have just mentioned.
One example, in the Wiener Blut, the concert master did
a great job in the solo part, the rich tone is indeed better
heard than Broskovsky himself with the violin, but of the
whole work, Seiji lacks of the exact elegance while Broskovsky
provided.
Tempo wise, he is way too fast in many areas. The Plappenermaulichen
for one, yes, it is a Polka schnell (means fast), but still
it is a Polka, not a Gallop right? If only he can add a
little bit more rebate, and trade a little bit speed with
some humor.
I don't know how many of you also enjoy ballroom dancing
here. I used to be pretty good at it during college time.
I can tell you one thing though, that a really good waltz
does not need to have strong audible bits. The rhythm make
one dance, and esp. in waltz, elasticity is the key. While
Broskovsky and Kleiber let the music waving itself around,
Seiji here made the VPO more or less sound like a Boston
Pop. Well, you may argue with me that Karajan also made
the VPO sound like a march band. But the difference is that
K did get the best sound out of the Orchestra, while Seiji
failed to fully utilize its potential.
Sorry to sing a different tune here. But escalation as
some of you shown is way too outrageous, don't you think?
classicfan (2002-01-02 16:04:29)
Well, at least I didn't feel any surprise about your remarks.
Like what we've learned from your previous behavior in here
and other classical music bbs, we know that you are used
to singing a diffrent tune with others in order to show
your "superioirty" in music appreciation.
I totally disagree with you. This year's New Year's Concert
is superb not only in respect of atmasphere but also in
music quality. The VPO sound terrific under Seiji. Those
familiar pieces sound like new composition under his conducting.
Boston Pop? Of course! Don't forget these simply arePOP
pieces! I didn't see your points at all.
classicfan (2002-01-02 16:27:10)
Sorry, the last sentence of the above should be: I couldn't
see your points at all. (否则是另一种意思了。）
余超 (2002-01-02 23:56:35)
我在一定程度上同意donjuan的意见。特别是Wiener Blut那一首，开始的独奏部分虽然特别好，但整体来说，还是少了一点“小资产阶级情调”，那是我最期待的。:-)
现在听新年音乐会，实际上并不是想看看那个指挥对自己口味，它对我更像一个仪式。当蓝色多瑙河开始前指挥和乐手向观众们说“新年好！”的时候，我才敢让自己相信：新的一年开始了。
donjuan 来自: USA (2002-01-03 05:33:09)
^_^. Well, maybe "outrageous" is too heavy a word, I take
it back. But, there is no need to be obnoxious anyway. Easy,
easy, my young fellow.
OK, watched it a second time (since I taped as I usually
do). After listen through my Senheisser 575, I have to take
back some of what I have said earlier. No, VPO did not sound
like Boston Pop, because it was not brassy enough. Based
on sectional play alone, it still sounded like the old VPO,
the mellow yet rich French horn, the sweet woodwind, the
shining yet warm string playing. What strange though, is
that the double base sounded so predominately, partly with
the help of the timpani, it sounded so boomy that at certain
moment, I can almost hear the sound decay of the base, or
maybe it was over reverberated. As a result, when the whole
orchestra play together, the tonal color has been shifted
to the darker, boomier end, while the woodwind section has
been suffered significantly. Same thing happened to the
Harp, which was supposed to be audible even playing with
the orchestra! What we lost? The delicacy balance of the
different sound layer. Instead, we got just one plain mushy
sound wall. Sloppy play if one like to say, or sloppy recording
on the other. But either way, this IS NOT as good as the
renditions by Broskovsky and Kleiber. No, not within a mile.
Peter Fang (2002-01-03 10:08:28)
I watched part of the replay on CCTV yesterday and was
surprised that it sounded different. The live broadcast
was very bright and often had distortions (I guess the CCTV
engineers set the wrong sound level) but in the replay the
distortions were all gone. However, the sound became so
bass-heavy that I wondered whether I accidentally had "mega
bass" turned on, which I did not. This balance problem was
more like an engineering one and unlikely Ozawa's. Too much
bass means the whole sound picture became less crystal-clear
and I know it's not the right sound because the VPO sound
is always their signature "bright" when they perform in
the Musikverein. It's a unique sound that failed to come
through in this TV broadcast. Let's see how the upcoming
Philips CD and DVD sound. Sound aside, I still liked the
performance a lot. It might not have the vienese charm of
Carlos Kleiber and Boskovsky but many oft-played "war-horses"
sounded so fresh under Ozawa and that was enjoyable. I always
try to look for something new in the New Year's Concerts
and I think whichever Maestro tries to become another Kleiber
on this podium will fail miserably so the best way to go
is to be himself and impress in his own way. I've always
wondered what we would hear if James Levine or Pierre Boulez
(two conductors close to the VPO) conducted the VPO in these
concerts. :)
Felix (2002-01-03 10:42:30)
那段欧元的片子非常小资，很有意思！
Felix (2002-01-03 10:50:13)
阿萨兄那篇讲小泽呼吸的文章咋找不到了！我觉得好几次的动作提前都是音画没配合上，真正小泽提前动作的极少。比如加演的第一曲，就比较明显是提前动作了。
donjuan 来自: USA (2002-01-03 12:09:15)
Thanks, Perter. That may explain the reason. I think it
might be the recording fault. Hope they can fixed the balance
problem before issuing anything. Universal folks now a days
only care to make money rather than music. This of course
is their best chance. But you can count me out, I will not
invest any money on this one.
Yes, I am also looking forward to seeing Levine on that
podium. Afterall, Boston folks just couldn't hold their
happiness to see Levine's coming. They just can't wait till
the formal departure of Seiji. Sad isn't it? To see the
almost 30 year marriage just ended like that. One last thing,
you want Boulez to tear down the roof of the Musikverein?
Come on, not him for the new year! ^_^.
Eilan (2002-01-03 17:19:07)
Hello, Peter,
＞＞I know it's not the right sound because the VPO sound
is always their signature "bright" when they perform in
the Musikverein.
Maybe the reason is that VPO switched the A from 446 Hz
to 440 Hz. I heard it from another list. If so, Wow Peter!
I have to say you are a rare bird who could recognize the
difference. But if the problem you described is just due
to the engineer's fault... OK, I am not ashamed to say I
didn't realize it during the telecast.
At any rate, everyone has his own mind of the sound of
VPO.
Have a good day!
Eilan
Eilan (2002-01-03 17:27:13)
＞＞I've always wondered what we would hear if James Levine
or Pierre Boulez (two conductors close to the VPO) conducted
the VPO in these concerts. :)
In my opinion, if James Levine were there, he would give
a concert as magnificantly as Kleiber's. BTW, Kleiber could
and can do no wrong, correct?
Peter Fang (2002-01-03 20:40:50)
Dear donjuan, if you noticed the smiley I used at the
end of my post you'd realize that I was joking about Boulez
there. No offense to Boulez fans, though. I treasure many
of his recordings but he might not be the right person to
conduct the New Year's Concert. :) Well at least he only
wrote in the 1960s that opera houses should be blown up
and that did not include the Musikverein. :)
Dear Eilan, sorry to disappoint you but I don't think I
can hear the difference between 446Hz and 440Hz from a TV
broadcast. I was merely pointing out that the bass-heavy
sound did not resemble the VPO sound I hear on most recordings
I have. :) I agree with you that James Levine could be a
magnificent New Year's Concert conductor if he were scheduled
to appear. On your last question about Carlos Kleiber I
am afraid I cannot say "yes" or "no" to it because Kleiber's
repertoire was/is too limited for us to judge. I am not
a member of the Kleiber "cult" but I might go as far as
to say that in the works he chose to do he did them all
well. Now only If DG can persuade him to come out from fishing
and make more recordings before he officially retires it
would be wonderful for all of us. What about some more Beethoven
symphonies (or at least the 9th), the rest of the Brahms
symphonies (I know he only performs the 2nd these days),
and more opera? Given the tough time the classical recording
industry faces today I don't see that coming any time soon.
I read elsewhere a post from a conductor who attended all
seven performances of his Rosenkavalier at the Met and it
made me dreaming about hearing a tape of that event some
day...
classicfan (2002-01-03 20:41:24)
Well, donjuan, now I found out that you are so eager to
show your 'superiority' not only in music appreciation but
also in age. How funny! Do your words sound more authoritative
if you are older?!
classicfan (2002-01-03 20:53:47)
I believe that nobody here thought that Ozawa is perfect
as far as his performance in the New year's concert is concerned.
Different opinions are noraml. However, nobody likes to
be "cooled down" by a snobbish fellow like Donjuan. Yes,
we know you live in the U.S. and have an expensive earphone,
but these do not mean that you can understand music better
than others.
donjuan 来自: USA (2002-01-04 02:52:20)
Sure, Perter, I know you are kidding. Me too. Even though
I don't care too much about mordern music, I like Boulez
conducting Mahler if not all of them, and couldn't wait
to get his Bruckner 8th on DVD. Saw him conduct the 9th
on the web, really liked it.
donjuan 来自: USA (2002-01-04 03:28:19)
Dear classicfan, I know you have heard of a lot live performances,
I happened to be no so lucky, and feel like there is even
a bigger world that I haven't explored. There's no reasin
to feel superior. Am I old? Come on, only 35 you thought
it old? Wow! True I can't touch the rim anymore, but I still
can play the basketball. Why can't I? No, I am not a rich
fellow, but rather poor. I bought the senheisser for only
about half year to replace my broken Koss which I have used
for almost 6 years, and the price wasn't as expensive as
you might have thought. By the way, isn't there somebody
here who's using Stax here? That's the real one. :). OK,
any differences? Everyone has his likes and dislikes, we
debated a lot at RMCR. Nothing wrong there. The sounding
problem Peter has helped me clear out. I guess I am not
the only one who feeled the uncharacteristic boomy sound.
Last thing, I saw some of your CD recommendations elsewhere,
I don't have much against to, except that you feel that
the Furtwangler's 44 Eroica is just a Hype, which I don't
agree. That's all. Other than that, most of the recordings
you mentioned, I love them too. I just try to avoide to
repeat the same thing to save some space. Doesn't that manager
like to delete things? ^_^. Enjoying your listening, I know
I will.
classicfan (2002-01-04 09:58:08)
TO DONJUAN:
Ok, my young fellow (Since I am older than you, I guess
I AM entitled to call you like this), it is quite understandable
for a young people like you to speak naively while pretending
to be experienced and knowledgeable. I forgive you. But,
please remember: one needs to be humble to learn as much
as possible.
Peter Fang (2002-01-04 10:03:40)
Dear donjuan, I was just listening to the Boulez Mahler
7th late last night. I have all his DG Mahler releases as
well as the older Sony "Das klagende Lied". Of the newer
recordings I like his 1st, 6th and 7th the most and I haven't
given enough time to his new Das Lied von der Erde with
the VPO yet. Most of the time it's a revelation listening
to Boulez's Mahler and the clarity he was able to bring
out is unsurpassed in my opinion. Maybe only the late Sinopoli
came close in that regard. By all means get Boulez's Bruckner
8th DVD. It's magnificent. In addition to a top-flight performance
it was also beautifully filmed and recorded. I got my copy
cheap from http://www.bensonsworld.co.uk/detail.asp?product=7000000060699,
this vendor has free international shipping! One problem
is that it's in PAL. So you noticed that I am using Stax.
:) I actually got the Stax 3030 system only days ago to
complement the Sennheiser HD600 that I've been using for
a while. I cannot afford high-end speakers and amplifiers
this is the most safisfying solution for me right now. I'd
have to spend maybe 20 times as much on a speaker system
to come close to the Stax. I'd rather spend those money
on recordings and books first. :) By the way Stax products
are at least 30%-40% cheaper in China compared to the prices
in the States.
donjuan 来自: USA (2002-01-04 13:37:42)
Great choices, Perter. I mean, both the recording you have
mentioned, and of course, your Stax. If anybody should feel
jealous to, I know I am little bit(^_^), it has to be to
you. Kidding.
Yes, I feel that Boulez's Mahler 1 & 6 should be among
the top 5 list in each symphony, even though I know there
is some one dislike his 6. But I quite enjoy it. As for
the 7, I think Abbado(CSO) and Rattle did slightly better,
well, it's still quite debatable. I just finished listening
Kaplan's Mahler 2 today, which is incredible, I wish I had
digged it out from our library ealier, but their catalog
is poorly catagorized, no coductor, even no label info.
I am going to dub a copy for my reference. A performance
like this really worthwhile to go back later.
Too bad that his Bruckner 8th still hasn't been released
in the US yet. Thanks for your link by the way, I guess
I might have to consider to get a zone free machine which
can play both NTSC and PAL mode now. :)
Peter Fang (2002-01-04 15:00:18)
Dear donjuan, Boulez's Mahler 7th sounds so different from
others yet it is compelling in its own way. I would not
recommend it as a first (or even second) recording for someone
new to the work but I find it an essential listen. For a
more "mainstream" 7th the Abbado, Bernstein (Sony or DG),
Bertini and the recent Michael Tilson Thomas are all excellent
choices. The MTT is gorgeously recorded. I am looking forward
to hearing Michael Gielen's version on Hanssler as I enjoyed
his 2nd, 3rd and 6th in the series so far. Kaplan's Mahler
2nd is a very solid performance and is well recorded too.
It's a version that I find hard to fault but at times I
feel I may want just a bit more freedom, edge, bite or emotion
here and there. I won't call it "bland", it is not at all,
but it's just a bit too polished. I go back to it once in
a while although in a more adventurous mood I'd pick Scherchen
or Bernstein/NYPO or even the recent Ozawa/Saito Kinen.
On the DVD side I think you need a region-free player and
a multi-system TV just to watch all the wonderful european
and japanese videos! I just received the Q-Disc Mengelberg
and Van Beinum box-sets and both include a bonus DVD. I
can't wait to get back home and watch them!
By the way, maybe we should communicate via private e-mail
otherwise I fear others might complain that we're trying
to turn this into an English forum. :) I still prefer typing
in English as I cannot input Chinese as efficiently. Please
write to petefang@yahoo.com if you feel the same. :)
donjuan 来自: USA (2002-01-05 03:47:04) ^_^. OK, Mr.
Classicfan, since I am your young fellow now, I guess I'd
better I call you Mr., as I don't know whether I should
call you uncle or big brother. Or maybe you are a lady,
then I will be embarrassed to death. ^_^. You do have a
youthful heart, don't you? So easy to get excited. Shame
of me, I seems hardly to do so these days. But anyway, Thanks
for your kindly forgiveness. Actually, I have no intention
to pretend to be experienced or superior. I like classical
music, enjoy collecting and listening to classical recordings.
I also enjoy watching people's debate about their preferences,
yes, sometimes I also participate in it. We do it all the
time at RMCR(I guess you already know what it stands). Since
BBS is just a part of democratic society, where people exchange
their opinions freely. Whether it's Mr. Henry Fogel from
the Chicago Symphony (also write for Fanfare), or Mr. David
Hurwitz from the Classicstoday.com, or Robert Beson from
the classicalcdreview.com, or Rob Barnett from the musicweb.uk.net,
or professional musician, player, conductor freelance composer
(hidden their name or not), people there are all equal.
We are free to pick other's faults because that's part of
discussion. I know a few collectors who have tens of thousands
of recordings and have tons of experiences, while I just
have slightly under 1K, less then 10%! But guess what, if
they said something I feel that I strongly disagree, I will
point out directly. That's part of debate, there is nothing
to feel superior or inferior of. Above all, the music always
comes first, not ranking.
So, if you have anything like to discuss, such as the
choices of certain performances like Beethoven, Brahms,
Bruckner or Chopin and so on, I, This Young Fellow, will
be more than willing to discuss with you and I am willing
to learn something from you, as I did from here. I have
just ordered my first 4 recordings of Asahina's Bruckner
from Japan, thanks for Ms Cina and Peter's recommendation.
And thanks for the recommendation from the other BBS, the
Kavakos played Sibelius Violin Concerto is also on the way
here. To tell you what, I am very interested to learn how
Jacques Urlus's Wanger sound alike, thanks for Patzak's
promotion!
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